I spent from June of 1965 to August of
1977 directly on the Nevada Test Site, worked there full time. I was
Radiation - Health and Safety. Most of the time I worked there, I either
worked for Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, Lawrence Radiation
Laboratory out of Livermore, Berkeley rather, California or Sandia
Corporation out of Albuquerque, New Mexico.
All those testing laboratories have
since changed their names. Lawrence Radiation Laboratory is now the
Lawrence National Laboratory, they don’t use the word radiation. In my
job we had responsibility for and access to all of the areas of the
Nevada Test Site which encompasses about 1800 square miles. It begins
north of Las Vegas at Indian Springs where the bombing and gunnery range
starts and goes all the way to Beatty, Nevada. It’s an area that has
armed guards around it, surveillance devices, it’s a restricted air
space, you can’t fly over it. If you’re caught on it, things happen
to you. I had a top secret clearance and I think there probably wasn’t
a square mile of that test site that I haven’t been on or seen, part
of which is Area 51.
One of the things I’d like to tell
you folks right now is that there’s certain things that I cannot and
will not talk about. When you quit out there, quitting what used to be
the Atomic Energy Commission, it’s now the Department of Energy,
it’s kind of like quitting the Central Intelligence Agency. You never
quit. They never let loose of you. There are certain things that I saw
and was part of that I will take to the grave with me without talking
about. However, there are a lot of things that I can talk about. And I
think the news media has titillated public interest in a very dishonest
way because 95% of what’s at area 51 is totally uninteresting, it’s
very mundane.
The federal government tests aircraft
at Area 51 that they want to keep secret. To give you an example, when I
was out there, during the later years I was out there, they tested the
stealth fighter and the stealth bomber, the Blackbird, SR-71 flew in and
out of there on a weekly basis. The reason the government uses Area 51
is because it has a 10 mile long runway, absolute secrecy, you can’t
see anything that’s worth seeing from the air or the ground. And that
hill that sits away from Area 51 where everybody goes up and looks, all
they can see... we used to sit there and look back at people and do this
(wave) because all you can see is administration buildings. That’s all
you can see. The government knows that people are out there looking into
the area and because of that a deliberate effort has been made that
there’s absolutely nothing to see right there.
Now if you go a few miles north,
there’s a lot of things that people might want to see but never will.
The Dept. of Energy now has yearly tours on the test sight, once a year
the families of employees, that belong to certain classifications of
workers, are allowed to take bus tours through part of the test site.
It’s a very small area that they let people see, it’s Frenchman
Flat, the flat where the old air bursts, where atmospheric tests were
performed. But you can’t get within 40 miles of Area 51. As I told
Paul Strassels on the radio the other day, there were things I saw and
have seen in Area 51 that would make one wonder where they came from.
I’ve also seen things out there that violate most of the laws of
physics. My degree is in physics, and we , on a routine basis, used to
observe... because we worked at night, it was a 24 hour a day, 365 days
a year operation out there. And I worked all three shifts, graveyard,
swing and days. I worked at night a lot out there. I’ve seen things
that most aircraft or no aircraft that I know of could do, do.
So the news reports that you hear are
accurate to the extent that someone is testing either weapons or various
vehicles that go through the atmosphere that use technology that we’re
not really in possession of. Now, if that sounds a bit odd, I would say
this. The federal government is afraid... in fact we had a whole
division of public relations people to feed the public information that
was cleansed. The federal government is afraid that if the population of
the United States knew some of the things that we have done and have
seen and have found, people would panic. And that’s all I can say
about that. The other thing is that while we were testing nuclear
weapons out there, the last year I was out there, the last full year I
was out there, in ‘76, we had 53 or 54 underground nuclear weapons
tests. We announced 2 of them to the public. The reason for that was
strictly political.
There was a ground swell movement to
eliminate nuclear weapons testing, the government didn’t want people
thinking they were hopelessly contaminating part of Nevada for all
times, which they have, it’s too late now, it poses no real threat to
us, anyway. So they didn’t announce those things. I use that as an
example of part of which isn’t told to the public. There was nuclear
weapons testing I was involved in, I should hasten to say that most of
that was stockpile testing. We would take a nuclear device out of stock
pile and test it, see if it worked. It’s as simple as that. Nuclear
weapons tend to deteriorate when they sit around for periods of time.
Degrade is the term. We haven’t tested at the test site now since
1992. Probably never will again.
There’s a massive clean-up effort out
there, that will take a long time. As far as Area 51 goes, I have a lot
of friends that work at the test site, still. Area 51 is the most
secured area in the United States. Area 51 happens to sit in a place
where, as I said, security has to be absolutely tight because it’s
nothing but desert, government public lands, it’s secured public land.
A lot of what goes on in Area 51 goes on at night so the Russian
satellites can’t see what’s going on. That’s why people from time
to time see things. It’s a fascinating place. If any of you have
questions of me I’ll either answer them or I won’t but I’ll tell
you up front whether I can tell you about it or not. I saw some things
in Area 51 that, objects, that were strange, didn’t seem to be
something that, at the time, we had the capability of manufacturing. I
don’t know where they came from, I don’t know much about them. But I
saw what I saw with my eyes. I did ask, on 2 separate occasions, one of
caretakers, that’s what we called them, and I was told the first time
- don’t ask.
Now, remember, I had to top secret
clearance, I had a need to know. Our group, 80 of us, could go anywhere.
We could ask any questions because of what we did. But that was one
subject that I was told, don’t ask. The second time I asked, I was
warned that if I asked again, some rather dire things might happen. So I
never asked again. I’m familiar with the Roswell incident in 1947 in
New Mexico. I have every reason to believe that the federal government
found something there. I have every reason to believe the federal
government will never tell what they found there. We have so much
paranoia of humans, anyway, if there was any leak that some sort of life
form had visited this planet, the federal government is convinced that
people would panic and that anarchy might prevail for awhile. That’s
about all I can say. The government is telling people that they’re
dismantling Area 51. I always found that curious because there’s
actually nothing to dismantle out there. Everything that’s out there
has been brought there from somewhere else. Right next to Area 51 is the
Nellis/Indian Springs AFB bombing and gunnery range and that’s where
all the armored experiments go on. So it’s all kind of part of the
same area.
There were no nuclear weapons tests
that were performed in Area 51. That’s an area that has been kept
pristine, for very good reasons, mostly the other different parts of the
test site have starting with Area 1 and ending with Area 26. Every area
out there is numbered. Area 51 somehow got a designation of 51. There is
no 27 through 50. But somebody decided to do that, it’s just like all
of our nuclear weapons, they all have names. Every one had a name. That
name was a code as to what size it was. The largest, I can say this
without fear, the largest underground weapon I ever participated in was
a five and a half megaton device, buried 5500 hundred feet below the
desert floor, that we set off. That’s equivalent of 5 and a half
million tons of TNT. And that was the biggest device ever exploded in
the United States. A larger device than that exploded underneath
Amchitka Island (?) in Alaska some years later. There was a nuclear
device set off in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, I don’t know how many of
you people knew that, that was done in the 60’s. We’ve had a number
of accidents out at the test site the public never knew about. I’m not
really at liberty to talk about that except it may be interesting for
you to know that I now live in South Dakota, I don’t live in Nevada
anymore. And I will never live in Nevada. I personally have 2 body
burdens of plutonium 39 in me and if I live long enough and become old
enough, I will die of bone cancer. But I’m not worried about that
because I knew what the risk was when I got into the business.
A lot of the friends and people I
worked with are dead now. It’s a very risky, it’s a very high
hazardous job. Nuclear weapons are something that are, well, there are
so many of them that... the hazard that a nuclear weaponry poses isn’t
blasting people off the face of the earth. We could have a war with
Russia and they could have one with us and China and everybody could get
involved in it, it still wouldn’t wipe out the human race. The problem
comes after the bomb goes off because of what’s called fission
products. And that’s the contamination that ensues. It’s getting to
be a real big problem because of the reactors, the fire reactors create
of fission products and debris that we’re having a hard time figuring
out what to do with. Probably most of that debris and waste will end up
at the Nevada test site and that will be an area that for thousands and
hundreds of thousands of years, no one will never be able to live there
or, it will be a closed area.
We’re developing the technology now,
and I don’t mind talking about it because Popular Science came awfully
close to the truth here a few months ago in one of their issues and I
don’t think they even knew it. The Air Force in cooperation with the
Department of Defense is developing an aircraft now that will go in
speeds in excess of speeds of 10,000 mph which is almost fast enough to
achieve orbit without boosters. And that is a nuclear powered thrust
system. Whether or not that will ever become public or not, it’s hard
to tell, because nuclear engines are very dirty. Very dirty. The only
other things I can tell you about Area 51 is that there will never, in
our life times, be any information let out about some of the things that
are out there. I will say that it has become a storage area for
oddities. That’s where, other than Kirkland Air Force Base, the
Roswell debris was supposedly taken. All I can say is sometime, during
my tenure at the Nevada Test Site, there was debris from Roswell, New
Mexico stored away at Area 51. I was lucky enough or unlucky enough to
see some of it. I don’t take any pleasure in that knowledge because it
puts a constrain on me I don’t like to have.
Question: Could you describe
what you saw concerning the Roswell debris?
Answer: No. I’ll tell you why,
folks. I don’t know if any of you have been to Leavenworth, Kansas or
not but that’s where the federal prison is. It’s hot, it’s humid
and I have no desire whatsoever to go. I still have a real, legitimate
respect for the Department of Defense security. When you leave out there
they debrief you. And the debriefing lasted quite a few hours, the
better part of a day and the bottom line was - don’t talk or else.
That was the bottom line. And they gave you a list of things not to talk
about. I have not violated any of those this afternoon. Since I left out
there, I don’t believe I ever have. I’m very careful about it.
Question: I lived near an Air
Force base and I used to see unusual things flying about. Are these
things terrestrial or extraterrestrial?
Answer: Well, a group of fellows
and I were on our way to work one night to the test site. We saw
something that to this day.....this was an aircraft of some sort,
aircraft being defined as an object in the atmosphere that is moving
around. There were 6 of us, we were all trained observers, we were not
the type of people who see things go bump in the night, I’m pretty
skeptical about things, generally. That aircraft that we saw land, which
was next to the test site, did some things that with the technology we
had then and probably with the technology we have now, were impossible
to do. We saw it, I saw it, the 5 other fellows with me, we stopped the
car and got out and watched it for 15-20 minutes. I have no idea what it
was. I had access to and was privy to a lot of classified information,
for instance, the SR-71 was a common place aircraft to us and yet the
general public knew nothing about it. But it came in and went and it
made a lot of noise, that’s the only thing I didn’t like about it.
It came in hot and it left hot. It came in over the speed of sound and
it left at the speed of sound. So it was always making this horrible
noise. That was a very common thing to see. Some of the other things I
saw were uncommon.
Question: Who’s the boss, how
did you get hired?
Answer: That was a mundane
process. I went out there....
Question: Was it the Department
of Defense?
Answer: At the time it was the
Atomic Energy Commission when I was hired. And then it became the Energy
Research and Development Administration and then it became Department of
Energy, the government keeps changing the name. I was there during the
visit of two presidents of the United States, Lyndon Johnson was one of
them, Gerald Ford was the other one. Neither one of them were shown
certain things. The President does not have Top Secret Clearance.
Question: Do you agree or
disagree with that?
Answer: That’s a tough one. We
live in a republic, a democratic republic, supposedly. I don’t trust
most politicians, however, not because they’re dishonest, necessarily.
Nuclear weapons are a very terrible thing. I’m ambivalent about it. I
don’t know. The time when Lyndon Johnson came out there we tracked him
through an area that was hot, none of us had anti-contamination clothing
on, we had no instruments, we were dressed just like this, we let him
walk through a contaminated area because it wasn’t supposed to be
contaminated. That’s all I can say about that.
Question: These things you
can’t talk about, in your opinion, do you feel it would cause mass
hysteria? You seem calm.
Answer: No, it doesn’t bother
me, I have this belief. We have already been to the moon, okay? Big
deal. It’s not going to be too many more years until humans will be to
Mars and beyond. It’s a matter of propulsion systems, it’s a matter
of getting people to the point where they can live in space for long
periods of time, either suspended animation or whatever, so they don’t
come apart, mentally or physically. We have the technology to literally
explore the solar system right now, the planets that are in the vicinity
of us. And so it’s not a big thing. It doesn’t take much of a leap,
quantum physics tells you accurately that the speed of light is not a
speed which beyond is you cannot go. That old theory is gone. Quantum
physics says that you may go faster than the speed of light. If that’s
true, which it is, then travel to the nearest stars is possible. If we,
who are barely out of the primeval mud as beings can do this, it
doesn’t take much, it’s very logical to assume that there are other
life forms out there somewhere. We’re not unique. Good Lord, if we
are, it’s not much of a testimony is it? There are other life forms,
certainly....nothing that I saw surprised me. What surprises me is the
government’s paranoia about what the government knows. Consider the
fact that the federal government won’t even tell you the truth about
the budget process let alone anything else.
Question: There are some who
believe we are already on Mars.
Answer: Well, I don’t think
so.
Question: Go back to the
question who’s the boss.
Answer: Well, during the time I
was out there, one of the bosses was Edward Teller. Edward Teller is the
father of the hydrogen bomb. He worked for Lawrence Radiation
Laboratory, he’s still alive and he’s as close to being a God in the
scientific community and the nuclear weapons community as anybody on
this earth. Edward Teller was held in far higher esteem than the
President or anybody else. Might be interesting to note and this is not
classified, during the time I was out there, the Soviet Union had an
exchange program with us. It was not unusual to see Soviet scientists
out at the test site on a regular basis. We shared a lot of information
with them. I came to the conclusion, having talked to a lot of them over
the years, that they were really not our enemies anywhere near to what
the politicians wanted you to believe they were. We showed them... I
showed them things that I couldn’t believe we were showing people from
the Soviet Union. And I asked about that and was told that we had an
exchange program and they were able to see things and become aware of
things that I certainly wouldn’t have shown them.
Question: Did they see certain
things that you couldn’t see?
Answer: No, they couldn’t go
to Area 51.
Question: Why were we told they
were so bad?
Answer: It’s always helpful to
a nation to have an enemy.
Question: Between Teller and
Oppenheimer, what’s your opinion about Oppenheimer......
Answer: Openheimer was
railroaded, he was ruined because of the paranoia that was going on
during that time. Robert Oppenheimer to me was a hero in the scientific
community and the man’s life was ruined because of paranoia.
Question: Teller was kind of a
political puppet.
Answer: Edward Teller was the
kind of man that would have been loyal to Adolph Hitler or to whoever
was the boss, so to speak. I didn’t like the man, I still don’t like
the man. He’s arrogant, he was totally unsympathetic to radiation
health and safety, he was totally unsympathetic to people’s lives and
he still is.
Question: I was noticing your
medical ID bracelet, is that related to your work?
Answer: I have MS, I also have
degeneration of the retina. It’s probably... the exposure I got, the
radio isotopes I have in me, it’s very probable that my medical
conditions are because of what I did. But I want to add, I knew what I
was doing, I was paid very well for it and I have no regrets.
Question: This is a stupid
question but when they exploded that 5 and a half million ton bomb
underground, didn’t that make a tremendous noise?
Answer: That was called Box Car,
the name of that device was called Box Car. I don’t know how they name
those things, they all have these strange names. I was on that test. I
was assigned to it. When Box Car was detonated, it was 5500 feet under
the surface, 5 and a half million tons of TNT equivalent, a device the
size of...that log right there. Maybe a little shorter. Ground zero
lifted 400 feet for a half a mile radius straight up in the air. And
then came back down. What happened then underground would be, small or
large, is a cavern is created at the point where the weapon was
detonated, of various sizes depending on the size of the weapon. And
then the ground starts to slough in all the way to the top, sometimes,
Box Car didn’t because it was too deep, and you have a crater on top.
If you were to fly over the Nevada Test Site, it looks just exactly like
the moon. Precisely like the surface of the moon. There’s hundreds of
craters. To give you an example, one device that was set off right after
I got out there, in 1966, actually came out of the ground, on purpose.
6.9 million cubic yards of dirt came out of the ground, created a
crater, in less than 2 seconds. That’s a crater a quarter of a mile
across and 500 feet deep.
Question: Unintelligible.
Answer: Yes, that’s
Hattiesburg, Miss. At one point we had a project out there called
Operation Plow Share. Operation Plow Share was designed to create
weapons that were capable digging another canal across the isthmus of
Panama. So we dug a canal out at the test site. It’s about a mile
long, a hundred yards wide and it’s probably 400 feet deep. We used 5
nuclear weapons buried at shallow depths to create this ditch, instant
ditch, that’s what we used to call it. It was Operation Buggy. And not
surprisingly, the people of Panama took exception to us wanting to do
that so we never did it. But we tested it. That was very popular in the
60’s, we thought we could use nuclear weapons to do industrial things.
But we never could get them clean enough, we got them pretty clean but
not clean enough. The clean weapon is a neutron bomb. The neutron bomb
could be set off up here, 3-4 thousand feet up, we’d all die, the
grass is OK, the trees are OK, the cars are OK but we are water bearing
creatures and we would absorb so many neutrons that we’d be dead,
instantly.
The neutron bomb is in place, most of
our intercontinental ballistic missiles have neutron bombs. While I was
at the test site, Jimmy Carter promised us that... now I happen to be a
registered democrat, so I’m not beating up on a democrat here, Jimmy
Carter promised during the campaign of ‘76 that if elected President
he would never, ever test the neutron bomb or deploy it. What the
American people didn’t know was that we’d already tested it. And
right after he became President, in the next 4 years, we deployed it all
over the world. There’s no reason to lie to people about that because
the neutron bomb, if you have to have a bomb, it’s a clean bomb. It
doesn’t contaminate, hardly at all, it’s a very efficient killing
machine, yet the federal government chose to lie about it. I don’t
know why.
Question: Can you tell us how
the chain of command goes? I mean if it’s not the president who...
Answer: National Security
Council, indirectly. The National Security Council includes both the
civilian and the military, the National Security Council includes the
Joints Chiefs of Staff. We’ve come very close folks, a couple of
times, to having a military takeover in this country and I’m not one
of those people who goes around saying these things but that’s just a
fact. The last one was when Clinton got
elected, we almost had a military takeover. The test site was locked
down, that’s a term they use, before we had a test they’d lock the
site down. You couldn’t go anywhere, for like 2-3 days. And if you
were on the test you were locked within a lock down area. After Clinton
was elected president that November, the test site was locked down and
stayed locked down for 3 or 4 weeks.
There was no testing going on. There
was some concern about the transference of power during that time from
the election to January 27 or whenever it was, January 20th, the
inauguration took place. There’s been some pretty scary things happen.
The only reason I knew about it is I worked out there. There would be
times when we’d be put on alert, security alert, for reasons that were
beyond me. There were times when things went the other way. Before we
set Box Car off, I called home that morning and told my wife to put a
bowl of water on the kitchen table, now this was 160 miles away, I lived
in Las Vegas. I said watch it, zero time is at 5 o’clock. I called
from the test site, everyone in Vegas knew, they stopped gambling during
that time because of the roll of the dice. Vegas shut the casinos down
for a few minutes, just the big ones. Box Car was so big, they had to
say something about it, so at zero time, after to detonation, about a
minute to 2 minutes later, my wife said that bowl of water sitting on
the table splashed over and it actually did fall off the table. And that
was 160 miles away as a crow flies.
Question: Unintelligible
Answer: Everything that goes on
at the Nevada Test Site is on a need to know basis. There are 3 words
that you will hear over and over, every single working day you’re out
there, everything is on a need to know. I was going to bring my security
badge with me and I forgot it, I still have it. I had a top secret
clearance with sigma’s on it. These sigma’s denoted what
informational areas I was privy to and one of those areas was Area 51. I
got it as a souvenir when I left, I talked the security people into
letting me have it. There are all kinds of people in government that do
not have the need to know of what’s going on out there, or at least
parts of what’s going on out there. And they’re not told. And that
includes the President.
The problem right now in this country
is that we don’t have an enemy anymore, I only say that half
facetiously, we’ll create one, one of these days.
Question: I was wondering about
your remarks about Clinton, the National Security Council intelligence
arm must be pretty poor if they were concerned about the transfer of
power to a man like Clinton who has become such a puppet, it just
doesn’t add up some how.
Answer: I don’t mean to sound
sarcastic but the term military intelligence is an oxymoron.
Question: Something about
propulsion systems, most unintelligible.
Answer: I can say this,
anti-gravity devices exist, where they came from, that’s another
matter of speculation. They’re unwillingness to talk about things like
that within the government stems partly from human nature. If you’re
privy to some information that you hold dear, regardless of what it is,
we’re reluctant to share it with other people. That’s part of the
problem. The other part of the problem is holding on to the information
so it can be used militarily. We have become so used to having any enemy
in this country and the need to have any enemy, another nation state,
that’s it’s gotten pretty bad.
Question: What are your personal
views about the future?
Answer: President Eisenhower
warned us about the military industrial complex before he left office in
1960. I personally believe that there’s a reason we moved to the Black
Hills of South Dakota. Partially because we’re at the top of the food
chain here and the water chain. I like to live in a place where the
water isn’t going to be contaminated. I personally feel that there’s
a good chance, an excellent chance that there’s going to be limited
nuclear war in the next 5-6 years. And whether that escalates into a
global confrontation, who knows. But it’s going to happen just as sure
as I’m standing here. The temptation to use nuclear weapons is getting
more and more, tactical, not strategical nuclear weapons, the tactical
nuclear weapons.
We spent a lot of time out there
testing tactical nuclear weapons, 150 kilo tons, 150,000 tons of TNT and
less. Small devices, devices that paratroopers can jump out of planes,
with them on their back. I can carry one around in a suitcase and the
problem with that is, nuclear devices have become so small, so compact,
so efficient, that if terrorists ever get their hands on one, and it’s
amazing that they haven’t, absolutely amazing, it’s going to make
this thing in Oklahoma City look like a walk in the park. Because the
first terrorist group that gets their hands on a nuclear device.....you
know we all used to say, well, China can’t do it because they can’t
deliver the weapons, that was a bunch of hog wash. You don’t need
rockets to deliver nuclear weapons, all you need is a suitcase, it’s
that simple. I can give you the address of a company in San Francisco
that would be more than happy to send you the blueprints for a nuclear
weapon for $19.95.
Question: Something about crop
circles.
Answer: You know, those crop
circles are amazing, I don’t know where they’re coming from. We had
places out in Nevada, there were no crops, it was sand and low bushes,
with crop circles identical to those at the test site.
Question: Were we responsible?
Answer: I can tell you one
thing, at the test site, it wasn’t some prank. In England some say it
was some pranksters but at the Nevada test site it wasn’t a prank.
There are no pranks out there.
Question: No sense of humor?
Answer: You know what, actually
there’s a lot of people that work out there that do have a sense of
humor. I have friend who has a picture of himself sitting on a nuclear
weapon smoking a joint. Now if that were found out, he’d be in really
big doggie do-do. But he’s a guy that works for Los Alamos Scientific
Laboratory in New Mexico.
Question: Unintelligible
Answer: You see, the insidious
part about what we call reality like radiation... we could be sitting
here and right there in that cooler could be a lethal radio isotope of
say cedium? 137 or (something) 90 and you would never know it. Unless
you had an instrument that detected it or if there were enough of it to
where you became sick and got radiation sickness, and subsequently died.
A lot of what we call reality, what we see, we hear, we smell, we taste,
we feel, isn’t quite the way we think it is. From a physics point of
view, there is no such thing as color. We’re all sitting around here
seeing colors that don’t exist. Light is electromagnetic radiation and
it’s colorless. Our brains interpret different wave lengths of color
through our optic nerve, what our minds call color, green jacket, brown
pants, there is no color there. Your brain is interpreting color,
different wave lengths and I call it green and I call it brown. We
mostly all agree on these things, generally speaking but we all see
different things. There is no color. So you have to stop and think about
crazy things you see in the sky at night that may or not be
unexplainable. To someone else may be very common, very explainable and
very ordinary. I’m just about to walk over the edge here... they may
not be...if you were to see a person, you may not recognize that person
as someone you thought might live on the face of this planet. And
that’s all I’ll say about that, I swore to God I wasn’t going to
say that.
Question: Unintelligible
Answer: If a race of beings had
the ability to travel from Alpha Centaur to here, they would certainly
have the ability to camouflage themselves, either to where we couldn’t
detect them or B. - to look like us. We’re a diverse looking race of
beings, they could look almost like anything. There’s creatures on
this planet that look pretty strange.
I have a healthy respect for and a fear
of my federal government. Because I’ve seen my federal government do
some really bad things to people. There were people out at the test site
that were the subjects of radiation experiments, I’ve seen them tie
animals down in areas that were going to be tested, we had a tower out
there, it was called Bren Tower, it was 1300 feet tall and at the top of
that tower there was a reactor, unshielded, small reactor and around the
base of that tower for a half a mile or so we would put experiments out,
live experiments and see how much radiation they could take. How much
gamma radiation, how much beta, how many neutrons they could absorb,
these were animals.
Question: When we dropped the
bomb in Japan in 1945, we didn’t know what the after effects were
going to be?
Answer: When we tested the first
device in July of 1945, the trinity device, in Alamogordo, New Mexico,
the scientists didn’t know for sure if that wouldn’t cause a never
ending chain of reactions and it would absolutely destroy the world.
They knew they had x pounds of fissionable material in that trinity
device but they didn’t know if that would trigger more reactions or
not. They didn’t know what was going to happen. When they dropped the
Fat Boy and Little Man on those 2 Japanese cities, they had all this
experience of one device. And they dropped those very dirty devices and
the war ended. Personally, I happen to believe that was the thing to do
because I think a million or more Americans, soldiers would have died
and a lot of Japanese people would have died if we had invaded the
homeland.
Something else, we have laser weapons
now that make nuclear weapons look pretty weak. We tested a lot a laser
weaponry out there when I was there in the 70’s, all kinds of laser
weapons. Laser weapons are far more selective. A nuclear weapon is just
a great big bomb that blows up and you have the radiation and the heat
and the wind and all that. They’re not as all destructive as people
think they are. The new ones aren’t as dirty as people think they are.
Question: Unintelligible.
Answer: What I know about
anti-gravity devices I’m not at liberty to talk about.
Area 51 does not deal with nuclear
weaponry.
Physics, folks, is advancing in leaps
and bounds, all technology is advancing in leaps and bounds. One of the
most dangerous things that’s happening to the human race right now is
we’re being left behind. I can’t even run my son’s computer as
well as he can and technology is going faster than our ability to keep
up with it. And when I say our ability, I’m not talking about just us,
I’m talking about the people that build it. We’re a couple of years
away from artificial intelligence, computerized, artificial intelligence
that has the ability to reason, to think, to comprehend existence. If
you stop and think about that, that’s pretty scary. It gets to the
point where maybe we become liabilities. When I was a youngster, Buck
Rogers and all that stuff was science fiction. And it’s advancing
exponentially. My mother who passed away a few years ago rode on a stage
coach here in the Black Hills. She also saw men walk on the moon. Now
you take another 20 years from now, and when I say it’s increasing
exponentially, the graph of scientific knowledge isn’t going up like
this, it’s going straight up, practically.
We’re talking about now, this Area 51
thing, the government will hang on until the last dog dies before
they’ll tell you what’s going on out there. Even after it becomes
irrelevant anymore, even after it becomes where it’s no secret. The
government still won’t talk about the things that happened in W.W.II,
I’m not talking about nuclear things, I’m talking about the
Philadelphia Experiment, and I shouldn’t have even mentioned that. The
government will not talk about all kinds of things that they already
know about.
Question: Something about all
the TV programs about UFO’s, government ready to tell.
Answer: It isn’t the
government loosening up, no. I have friends that work in government
security. And they absolutely gnash their teeth at the fact that all
these things leak out constantly and they lay awake at night trying to
figure out ways to plug leaks.
I think I told you all what I could
without laying awake tonight wondering if I told you too much, I hope it
was helpful. The best thing you can do to keep the society as free and
open as possible is to make sure the politicians we elect to office
don’t allow themselves to be sucked into the vortex of secrecy that
the government always wants to have. And if you see anything flying
around, believe your eyes, and believe it isn’t a weather balloon, if
the government says it’s something, it’s pretty safe to disbelieve
them.