Bob Lazar Interview
November 11, 1989 KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada has been airing a UFO special during the evening news which began on Monday dealing with the UFO mystery and cover-up. The series, began its coverage with a history of UFOs beginning in the late 1940s and moving forward through the numerous sighting reports to the cattle mutilations, which was aired last evening. As promised at the close of last evening's show, George Knapp, a news anchorman for Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a scientific person would be featured on tonight's program who has claimed to work at Area 51, the government's super-secret test range at Nevada Test Site at Mercury, Nevada.
Indeed, quite a story was told by Robert Lazar, a physicist who claimed that he had worked on a project at Area 51 involving flying disks provided by alien intelligences.
Both Lazar (formerly known only as "Dennis") and Lear have appeared on Channel 8 -- Lear appearing on numerous occasions together will Bill Cooper discussing Lear's famous 'ET Hypothesis.' On a past KLAS-TV report, Lear was shown to have traveled to locations appearing to overlook the test site which purportedly provided a good view of the objects as they flew into the night sky. Lear attempted to shoot video of an object as it maneuvered through the night sky during last summer, however nothing was captured on the tape of a substantive nature. Lear also relates that his group was harassed by a Lincoln County sheriff following his attempts to take the pictures.
Below is a transcript of the program that aired this evening. All paragraphs out of quotes are the narrator of the segment. We were as accurate as possible on the transcription, however there are a couple of places where comments were edited out due to inability to understand what was being said.
We've been working on the story for some time....UFO researchers claim that there is a secret government within our government. Now this may be hard to believe coming from the UFO perspective, but we have learned that Watergate and the Iran Contra scandal that factions within our government can and do pursue their own hidden agendas outside of the law; outside the control of the Congress or the knowledge of the American people. This is exactly the type of operation that we hear about tonight. It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may have its roots right here [Las Vegas, Nevada]. Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada Test Site, is no longer considered a secret. The fact that secretive things go on here isn't evident; even to the Soviets who make daily spy flights over the facility to take a peek at what's going on. These photos, never before shown in public, are about as close as anyone will ever come to seeing what the place looks like again. The dry bed at Groom Lake, the corrugated buildings, a three-mile long runway and some highly sophisticated radar and detection equipment. Its been known by many names over the years -- Dreamland; The Ranch; The Skunk Works. If ever there was a place to test the secret new technology, this is it. And that's exactly what has been done here for decades.
Area 51 is where Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2 pilots were trained in the 50s. And, where the U-2 itself was developed. The SR-71 spy plane that spotted Soviet missiles in Cuba in the early 60s were also developed at 51. 51 is where Stealth technology was nurtured, where Star Wars devices are still tested, and where all manner of CIA [unknown] business has been plotted and refined. It's the perfect place for secret things, but of course, that's no secret. 51 is ringed by the forbidden vastness of the Nevada test site; by the looming Groom Mountain and by sparsely populated desert expanses. But the people that do live out here have no love lost for the military, but they're conservative, patriotic and they mind their own business.
Interviewer questioning a nearby resident of Area 51: "Ever see something that you can't explain?" Resident: "Sure, lots of times." Interviewer: "Care to elaborate?" Resident: "No." (Laughter).
On any given night at the Rachel Bar and Grill, you might find three or four people who work at Area 51. They are among the flowing Budweiser and the cowboy hats. You might find them, but they are not going to talk to. Not about the things that they have seen over the mountain. A steady trickle of curiosity- seekers flows through here; strangers, drawn by strange stories of lights in the night sky. Their questions also go unanswered. No one who has worked at Dreamland has ever publicly acknowledged what so many people have suspected for years: That alien technology is being tested in the Nevada desert. The speculation first surfaced in documents obtained by UFO researchers. Documents about something called Project Aquarius. The document allegedly prepared for an organization called MJ-12, states that a program to fly recovered alien spacecraft was established in 1972 and is continuing in Nevada. The National Security Agency has confirmed it does have a Project Aquarius but denies that it has anything to do with flying saucers. NSA will not say what Project Aquarius is. Speculation was heightened in 1984, when the Air Force seized nearly 90,000 acres around Groom Lake. The action was, by most accounts, illegal. During Congressional hearings about the land grab, Congressman John Siberling grilled the military about the legal authority used in the action and was told the authority was at a much, much higher level than the Air Force. Siberling asked what authority is higher than the laws of the United States? The Air Force official said he could respond, but only in a closed briefing. In 1987, when the Air Force sought to renew its stranglehold on the Groom range, news articles once again mentioned the talk about alien spacecraft and subsequent articles in national magazines quoted un-named sources about things of alien origin flying in Nevada. Things that would make film-maker George Lucas drool. Despite the speculation, no one who knew Area 51 from the inside ever talked publicly about the saucer story.
Bob Lazar: "Well, there's several uh, actually nine uh flying saucers, flying disks that are out there of extraterrestrial origin." The live interview with the shadowy "Dennis" drew international attention. Portions were broadcast by radio in six European countries, and in a nationally televised TV special in Japan.
Despite numerous inquiries and "feelers," "Dennis" has remained anonymous until now. His real name is Robert Lazar. A young scientist with eclectic interests. The choice of "Dennis" was an inside joke -- he says that's the name of his superior at Groom Lake. It wasn't a joke to Dennis.
Lazar: "He called right after and said, 'Do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now?' and I said no, and he hung up the phone."
Lazar's story is by any standard, fantastic. He says he's telling it in order to protect himself. He said he was hired to work in area called S-4 which is a few miles south of Groom Lake. At S-4, he says, are flying saucers, anti-matter reactors and other working examples of technology that is seemingly beyond human capabilities.
Lazar: "Right. This stuff came from somewhere else. I know it is hard to believe, but it is there and I saw it. I know what the current state-of-the-art is in physics and it it can't be done."
Checking out Lazar's credentials proved to be a difficult task. He says he holds degrees in physics and electronics, but the schools that we contacted say they've never heard of him. He says he also worked as a physicist at Los Alamos National Labs where he worked with one of the world's largest particle beam accelerators, a half-mile long 'behemoth' capable of generating seven-hundred million volts. Los Alamos officials told us they have no record of Robert Lazar ever working there. They were either mistaken or were lying. A 1982 phone book from the Lab lists Lazar right there among the other scientists and technicians. A 1982 news clipping from the Los Alamos newspaper profiled Lazar and his interest in jet cars. It, too, mentioned his employment at the Lab as a physicist. We called Los Alamos again, and an exasperated official told us he still had no records on Lazar. EG&G, which is where Lazar says he was interviewed for the job at S-4, also has no record. It's as if someone has made him disappear.
Lazar: "Well, they're trying to make me look non-existent to the places that I called...." Interviewer: "Explain. Called where?" Lazar: "Well, the schools that I went to; the hospital that I was born at; past jobs, and nothing comes up with my name on it."
He smiles, but out of futility, knowing the whole thing must sound ridiculous. According to Lazar, his employer was the United States Navy. He says he and other government employees would gather near EG&G, fly to Groom Lake, then a very few people would get into a bus with blacked out or no windows and drive to S-4.
Interviewer: "You get off the bus, what do you see?" Lazar: "A very interesting building. Its got a slope of probably about 30 degrees which are hangar doors, and it has textured paint on it, but it looks like sand. It's made to look like the side of the mountain that it is in, whether it's to disguise it from satellite photographs or what...."
He says he was never told exactly what he would be working on, but figured it had something to do with advanced propulsion. On his first day he was told to read a series of briefings, and immediately realized how advanced the propulsion really was.
Lazar: "The power source is an anti-matter reactor. They run gravity amplifiers. There is actually two parts to the drive mechanism. It's a bizarre technology. There is no physical hookups between any of the systems in there. They use gravity as a wave using wave guides that look like microwaves."
It took awhile, Lazar says, before he actually saw one of the flying disks, however there were hints everywhere.
Lazar: "Right. They had a poster, and it looked like a commercial poster, like it was lithographed, like you could buy it at K-Mart or someplace, but they were all over the place and it had the disk that I coined the term 'the floor model' which lifted off the ground about 3 feet out at the area, in the Dry Lakes area, and the caption on it said 'They're here.' These posters were all over the place."
Later, he got to see the real thing.
Lazar: "When I was led in, it was the first time that I saw the 'floor model' in the hangar sitting down, and I was told they could have walked me in the front door but they purposely wanted to walk me by it. I was told not to say anything and to keep my eyes forward and walk past the disk to the office area. And I did. And as we went by it, I just kinda stuck my hands on it, just to run it alongside the thing and uh ....After that I got to see actually lift off the ground and operate." Interviewer: "You actually got to see more than one?" Lazar: "Yeah. The hangars are all connected together. There are large bay doors between each one. There were nine total that I saw, each one being different. Like they had the assortment pack."
Security at S-4 was oppressive Lazar said, and his superiors used fear and intimidation almost as a brainwashing tool.
Lazar: "They did everything but physically hurt me." Interviewer: "They put a gun to your head?" Lazar: "Yeah." Interviewer: "You mean they actually put a gun to your head?" Lazar: "They did that even in the original security briefing. Guards there with M-16s. Guys there slamming their fingers into my chest, screaming into my ear, they were pointing weapons at me. Like I said, it's not a good place to work."
That fear factor would surface later. Lazar agreed to undergo a polygraph exam as part of this report. Polygrapher Ron Clay asked about the technology that Lazar had seen.
Polygrapher: "Did you knowingly lie when you had actually seen anti-gravity propulsion in operation?" Lazar: "No."
The results of this exam were inconclusive. Lazar appeared to be truthful on one test; deceitful on a second. Clay recommended that a second examiner be brought in. Polygrapher Terry Tabernetti (sp?) runs a corporate security operation and is a former Los Angeles police officer. He put Lazar through four tests and concluded there were no attempts to deceive. Tabernetti sent his test results to a third polygrapher who agreed the results appeared truthful. The charts were then sent to a fourth examiner who did not agree suggesting that Lazar might be relating information he'd learned from someone else. The polygraphers concurred and decided they would not issue a final statement on truthfulness until more specific testing can be conducted. And that's where it stands.
Tabernetti believes the difficulty in determining Lazar's truthfulness stems from the fear that was drilled into him.
Lazar: "Well, I am telling the truth. I've tried to prove that. What's going on up there could be the most important event in history. You're talking about contact, physical contact and proof from another planet, another system, another intelligence. Thats got to be the biggest event in history, period. And, it's real and it's there. And I had an extremely small part in it. I'm convinced that what I saw is absolute proof of that. There is no way that we could have created those disks. There is no way we could have made the disks, the power supplies, anything that goes with it."
Lazar says he has no intention of going on any UFO lecture circuit. He is not looking to do any additional interviews. In fact, he was not too crazy about doing this one. He did it after certain unfavorable things started happening in his life, and he did it because he feels that whoever is running the show up at S- 4 is perpetrating a fraud on the American people and the scientific community.